@Tier1Diabetic
20:09 to be fair, the CAST was shocked that the director of Nemesis had never watched the show and they kept having to say “yeah, my character would never do that” so it does help to have some amount of understanding of the source material
@jeffbenson7278
Here's another thing: if that segment in Lower Decks HAD made Discovery non-canon, then wouldn't that also make Strange New Worlds non-canon? But then what about the Strange New Worlds crossover with Lower Decks? Does that then make Lower Decks non-canon? Well, if Lower Decks is non-canon, then how can it make Discovery non-canon? It can't! Which means Discovery, Strange New Worlds, and Lower Decks are re-canonized. But then, if Lower Decks is canon again ... anyway, it's the television version of the Grandfather Paradox.
@TheHimble
Regarding a jobs a job. I remember seeing an interview once with Michael Caine. They were speaking with him about one of his early Hollywood movies that, shall we say, is not highly regarded. The interviewer asked something like "What do you think about it when you watch it." to which Caine replied something along the lines of "I've never seen the movie, but I saw the house that it bought for me. And it was very nice." People still have to make a living.
@edwardallenthree
Klingons changing their appearance, sometimes radically, was established as cannon in Deep Space Nine. They don't like to talk about it. We should respect their wishes.
@creativerealms
Lower decks made a joke about the franchise like it always does. It took a jab at the contentious redesigns of the Klingons in Disco. Anyone trying to find some deeper meaning out of a simple gag missed the point. No they weren't saying Disco isn't part of the main timeline anymore. All they were saying was, "we know these designs are hated so laugh as beloved Klingon designs transform into them "
@kittenclaws5775
Inre: ST:LWD and Discovery canon. I posted this to my Bluesky: ------ "Lower Decks confirms DIS is in an alternate universe!" Uhm, no, it doesn't. It confirms that Discovery looking Klingons also exist in an alternate universe, just like apparently infinite Harry Kim's and Klingon Barges and identical looking birds of prey. Media literacy, babes. ----- And it was liked by Mike Mc-fucking-Mahan. Which I consider fairly fucking definitive on the subject lol
@KilravockMusicSWS
I’d imagine if you asked a Lower Decks writer about that scene they’d probably say it was just a gag and a way to tip their hat to discovery, not invalidate it and then they’d tell you to go outside for awhile and get some fresh air.
@Vilamus
Canon this, canon that. Makes me wonder if a bunch of people view Star Trek as a religion. Like that gag in Futurama.....but....like....unironic.
@Suttra_
It was pretty explicit in explaining that the Borg in "Regeneration" were survivors of the events of First Contact, they even mention Zefram Cochrane talking about it during a Princeton commencement speech. Therefore, Phlox's discovery happened in a timeline changed by those events as opposed to the original timeline where Picard first encountered the Borg. It was impossible for Picard's crew to find reference to it because it didn't happen. We know this is how time travel works in Trek because no one questioned Sisko about looking like Gabriel Bell until after the events of "Past Tense" when Sisko went back in time and had to replace him in history, the change doesn't exist until they do the thing that causes the change. Again, we know this because the Department of Temporal Investigations only show up after the events that cause a change which suggests that changes are detectable. If the the changes were retroactive there would be no way for someone to know that anything had changed. No wonder Janeway hates Temporal Mechanics - no one ever seems to get it ;)
@BSRJR
As far as the Phlox assimilation question goes; As of TNG, Borg assimilation is reversible without a huge “cracking of the code moment” They reversed Picard, they reversed Seven and others and its just accepted that its within their power to do so. Phlox’s research could easily been the basis of Dr. Crusher’s treatment. Just a case study collecting dust on the Star Feet Medical database until Beverly googled “weird nanites” or whatever.
@OhChrumbs
Lower Decks really suffered because it was marketed entirely as an "adult animated comedy", which was by far the weakest part of the show. I don't remember if it ever actually made me laugh, but I genuinely think it had some really cool and interesting Star Trek stories, written well and paced tightly to keep them under 30 minutes. I also really loved the characters, and how their relationships were almost entirely about lifting each other up. I also really enjoyed seeing a crew comprised of a wide variety of federation races, since they didn't need to consider the time or cost of coating a real actor in elaborate makeup. Especially for an "adult animated comedy", I really appreciate that the show never once felt cynical, and they never stooped to the level of generating Drama™ via shallow and nonsensical interpersonal conflicts, which could be resolved by a brief conversation. I think it was a very solid show, with a surprising amount of depth to offer, that was doomed from the moment they put the "joke" about the shuttle blast shields in the trailer. Edit: I take that back actually, the dolphins in navigation made me laugh, though I don't know what that says about me.
@samuelazzaro
Very well explained about the lower decks stuff.....except the part about the show not being funny, we'll have to agree to disagree on that 😁
@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t
Kirk and Spock not getting an 'onscreen goodbye' is some of the realest shit Trek could do. The last words I've spoken to a fair number of friends and family members have referenced actual plans to see each other in the near future, and it just... didn't pan out. Some of them might have expected to live another 50 years, and some, the plan involved me visiting them in hospital, but we thought they had the better part of a year left, at least. To quote Amos Burton from the Expanse, "everyone leaves unfinished business. That's what dying is".
@scottbutler5
I don't know when "canon" came to be defined as "stuff the fans have to like" but we really need to undo that shift. It would fix so much fandom drama. Plus a lot fewer people would gaslight themselves into liking the SW prequels.
@MadSpectre47
Ima watch this, but at 4:55 when he's talking about formulaic stories, the first thing that popped into my head was SNW Memento Mori. We've seen that story so many times in Trek, the classic submarine "Balance of Terror meets Wrath of Khan with a splash of Disaster" episode. Yet, Memento Mori had me genuinely forget all of that for varying amounts of time because the entire thing drew me in. I even forgot for a few seconds that the ship would survive because it's 1701. THAT is great storytelling. I was HOOKED into that episode.
@eisenwill
I wonder how much of the issue with Enterprise "forgetting" what show it was happened because executives (or maybe just Rick Berman) kept it from being all it could have been.
@ANeMzero
If the Lower Decks gag had instead turned the Klingons into TOS era Klingons, no one would be arguing that it is proof that the original series was an alternate universe, or that by extension Deep Space 9 must also be an alternate universe due to the Trouble with Tribbles episode. Honestly if you follow that rabbit hole far enough everything is in an "alternate universe" at which point it's not really "alternate" anymore. Klingons have had dramatically different appearances across different series and it's always just been something Trek has rolled with.
@chuckyhindle1877
As Voyager and Lower Decks are actually my two favourite Star Trek shows, I feel like under "normal" circumstances I'd be really put off by your content and opinions. But you are so damn reasonable and thoughtful, I find myself agreeing with you again and again. I still like the shows you don't, don't get me wrong - but you've demonstrated that *that's okay*. And ultimately, isn't that the spirit of Star Trek? Thank you, and please keep doing what you're doing sir.
@silmarian
I think the original goodbyes between Spock and Kirk was the sort of Everyman tragedy that we all know and don’t need to see. “See you next Tuesday, Jim, I’ll be on Earth for a couple of days.” On Monday: “Spock? It’s Leonard, I’m sorry to be the one to tell you…”
@FilmCram